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Post by derflet on Jun 7, 2015 21:36:02 GMT -8
I am just starting to try and be a bit more strategic on where I am focusing. I think it is probably time for a second 6* after Tyron. Given my relatively modest progress in the game I need fairly versatile monsters. I was thinking Lushen, or perhaps Hwa? Thoughts? Any other advice on the overall monster portfolio would be great. Any 5*s that I should just use as food?
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Post by Crystos on Jun 8, 2015 9:27:44 GMT -8
There is a diagram I saw once put out by YDCB I think, the YouTube guy. It went something like ... Phase 1: Clear scenarios. Phase 2: Build a farmer and level. Phase 3: Farm Giants. Phase 4: Fuse Veromos and/or Sigmarus. Phase 5, Farm Dragons. Phase 6: Clear ToA: Phase 7: Climb arena ladder.
That sounds right. Of course, everyone does everything all at once if they want to have fun. But those phases are what you should be focused on if you want to proceed efficiently.
So, you have Tyron. I imagine that means you are on Phase 2, farming Hydeni Ruins level five or Faimon level one and raising up your mons. But you don't have anybody in that picture who is going to help you farm higher Giant levels. Not that I can see.
Water Warbear and Vigor are kind of redundant, in my opinion. Why have two water tanks? You said you want to focus, so you should choose one and feed the other. The one I would chose would be Vigor. Speaking of water tanks, I see you have the elements of a bait defense. Going into a battle against a wind-heavy team you can bait with your water tank and use Michelle to put a shield over him. But you probably know that.
The Wind Harpy is fun in the beginning. But you will soon find you never use her anymore.
The Water Death Knight will become useful later. Store him for now. The Water Lizardman is ... not great. But I don't use one. Maybe you have found a function for him. I think he's just another water tank, tho, right?
Megan will help you out in the leader spot at your arena level. Water Phantom Thief will be useful but not a game changer.
Wind Pioneer is ... well, I haven't heard anybody signing his praises. But most people agree you should never use a natural 4 or 5 as fodder. They might get a buff or you might discover a good use for them no one else has thought of. Better store him for now instead of possibly wasting effort on something you won't find a use for right away.
I see you have an Ahman but no Belladeon. So that is your light healer. He is a monster that can help lift your team. But try to get a light inugami. There are two camps. Some prefer Ahman, some prefer Balladeon. I'm in the second camp. But you should get a light inugami and chose for yourself.
Overall, your next sixes are Lushen and Hwa. I know it doesn't follow the diagram. But Tyron, Lushen and Hwa are monsters you are going to be using ALL THE TIME. Forever. And I would 5 Megan and Ahman ASAP. That's support (Megan), heal (Ahman), speed lead/freezer (Tyron) and two different element DD (Lushen and Hwa). If you are looking for monsters who will be useful now and tomorrow, those are your guys.
You could also 5* Ramagos. He will be super useful. But. There will come a time. When he has only one use. And that is to kill fire monsters in arena and GW. And you will have to six him for that. And sixing a monster with just one special use is HARD. If my Ramagos was already a 6* I would love it. But I can't do it. Not for just one use. So ... he just sits in my inventory. A has-been waiting for a comeback that may never happen.
I can't tell what that little red girl is in the lower left. Fire oracle? If it is, store her.
I think you are doing great, by the way. You have a good eye for monsters with value. And there are others I could talk about in that picture. But you selected them for life. So you already know they have possibilities. Just remember, there are going to be a ton of dark hellhounds, dark harpies, living armors, fire toaists, wind mammoths, martial cats, etc. in your future. A ton. So, if your short term needs require leveling up an essential, core monster you can always fodder the experiment monsters and start again.
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Post by vakhir on Jun 8, 2015 20:04:14 GMT -8
You don't have a healer worth 6ing. Wind Harpu sucks, Dagora is too narrow, I'd trash both. Vigor is ehh in GW, he's a TERRIBLE tank because his defense is garbage, but he has a ton of HP. His AI is garbage too, FYI, he has to be used manually everywhere. Hwa and Lushen are amazing, Michelle is okay. Lulu probably never going past 5. Fire MA is mediocre. Should've kept as a 4 to use for fusion IMO. No experience with the taoist. Water lizardman is your best tank, by far, for water. Way better than Dagora or Vigor. Defense scales very well in environments you can anticipate, I'd never use him on an AD or something, but he's amazing at SDs (wind dungeon? kay, I can bring literally anything while he takes all the hits and takes no damage). Also an amazing Faimon farmer as a 6 star with vamp runes, and you'll have leftover vamp runes since they're not used much. That's for later. But I would keep the lizard.
Fedora will be useful later, immunity is a godsend. Wind imp is trash, that's food no matter what. Ramagos is amazing. Megan and Luer are great. Wind mammoth is okay, haven't used it but decent reviews. Not a priority. Dark hellhound is VERY hard to use, needs amazing runes, and only for PVP. Light yeti sucks. Water shark has gotten decent reviews as both a farmer and in DB10. Dark harpy is for PVP, definitely do not fodder any L/D you can't farm. Water cat is fusion. Hwahee needs to be a 6 and in GW to properly utilize her, but I plan to someday. We're also going to have a Sky Dancer HoH at some point. The pool is narrowing in terms of viable candidates. She'll be nasty then, keep. Fire LA is fusion or fodder. Wind elemental is only for the water cairos dungeon until you get a better dotter. Super, super squishy, I used one 'til I got Orochi. Kinda necessary evil. Fire taoist skills up 4 stars, never, ever fodder them so you can use it for food, and you have the wind one.
Summary, get rid of wind harpu, water warbear, wind imp, dark hellhound, light yeti, Fire LA (if not intended for fusion, and they're farmable), and the rest are usable in some way. Some sooner than others.
Megan, for example, is in many DB10 teams, which is a long way away. She is also used to zerg people in PVP by ATB and ATK buffing. Better on AO since AD has no guarantee that she'll not attack like an idiot.
Edit - wind harpu's for fusion, but since you leveled one that far and needs to be a 4 star for fusion, I wouldn't use it for fusion. I'd make a new one, very easy to get.
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Post by vakhir on Jun 8, 2015 20:15:52 GMT -8
Also, agree about Hwa/Lushen. Amazing in dungeons, Hwa carries all the Cairos element 10s by slowing towers or the boss. Lushen goes everywhere but ToA hard and DB10.
You probably should fuse a Baretta when you can. Baretta is absurdly strong and a great dungeoner.
Big thing you're missing is strong healers. Ahman needs runes or he sucks. Bella is universal, can go almost anywhere. I prefer having a very dedicated healer with 2 casts, but they tend to be atk-based heals until you get into the elite 4 and 5 star healers like Water AA and Chasun. Bella is similar to the always-available wind Yeti in terms of a single big group heal that scales on their HP, not your stats, but def break and offensive dispel are SO good. Try to get a Bella ASAP.
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Post by derflet on Jun 8, 2015 22:40:09 GMT -8
Thanks both of you, very helpful!
Crystos, I have been farming Hydeni 5 (Hell) but I really need I don't have a monster that I can get through Faimon 1 solo (hell).
The red monster I believe was the Fire Sky Dancer.
Looks like I need to get the right light SD...
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Post by Crystos on Jun 8, 2015 23:11:28 GMT -8
Thanks both of you, very helpful! Crystos, I have been farming Hydeni 5 (Hell) but I really need I don't have a monster that I can get through Faimon 1 solo (hell). I don't have a monster who solos Faimon 1 hell either. I don't think many people do. When I try it with friend monsters, not many of them make it. Perna is the only one that comes to mind. So, I farm in the same spot as you. I use Lushen there, BTW. It's really quick.
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Post by vakhir on Jun 9, 2015 2:57:14 GMT -8
Best bet for finding reps for Faimon Hell 1 are Chow, Ariel, Soha, Kernodon, Fire/Water monkey king, Susano, Gildong, Anavel, few others, and Vero for Faimon Hell 2. Water shark too, once people get theirs leveled. Almost any bruiser-built mon with vamp (especially if they have a counterattack) or heals somewhere in their skills or passives would have a chance with crazy enough runes. A few zergy mons with 2 AEs can, also. Zaiross can AE/AE/AE like a boss.
Most of those are only listed as reps for the purpose of being a scenario farmer. A few (and I guess Ariel would be lumped in here, and Chow, though Lumi's more popular) also get pimped out for carrying dungeons for people needing a boost, or are meant for filling those dungeon holes (like Acasis or Delphoi), but the most common reps for people not blindly showing off their rarest mon are meant to solo, and it's mostly water mons that have an easier time building for it. If someone's rep is Soha or Susano or Kernodon, especially, odds are they're built as a farmer. Doesn't mean they can handle Hell, but you can check them out and see how good the runes are.
Just because you can't do Faimon Hell doesn't mean you should do Hydeni, also. Hydeni has crappy mana and mon drops. I'd want at least better mana. I would need different and stronger runes on my Tyron to reliably do Hell 1, though my Vero can do Hell 2, it's just slow. I zerg Aiden hard with Lushen instead, usually, or Faimon hard on Tyron, though he isn't as fast. Another rune upgrade to improve my burst and I can shift my Lushen to Chiruka hard I think. Maybe.
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Post by vakhir on Jun 9, 2015 3:15:01 GMT -8
FYI, as an estimate, xp/energy (including regain from drops) has Hydeni hell at 1800, Faimon hard at 1665, Aiden hard at 1737, Chiruka hard at 1963. Note that this isn't listing what the xp number is at the end, it's total experience divided by energy per run (and then it gets split up amongst the mons available). Stam returns are 0.8 / 0.9 / 1.0 for the 3 difficulties, so it's total xp divided by 2.2 for normal, 3.1 for hard, and 4.0 for hell. Since Faimon hard gives 5160 xp and costs 3.1 stamina including average regain, you get 1665, assuming game rounds a .5 up. Double the number for double xp, but it wouldn't change the ratios.
That's just the xp including regain. Mana is better in all 3 hards, fodder is better in Faimon/Chiruka. The only run slower (considering it's hards compared to hells) is potentially Chiruka hard, but Aiden and Faimon on hard I easily zerg as fast as Hydeni on hell.
Is raw xp per mon higher in Hydeni hell? Yes, compared to all of those but Chiruka. Mon drop quality in Faimon pushes it up when people attempt to compensate for that, and you need to assign some value to mana, and for me, that makes them superior. I also am a fan of the reaper drops from Aiden, as I still need some skillups on the Hemos I'm making for ToA Hard (wish I'd been playing when they gave out Thrain).
As for Aiden vs Faimon, Xp difference between them is compensated by the 1 stars that sometimes drop in Aiden, though the 1s and 2s have some built-in xp. Chiruka is better than both overall, just slower. Nothing from people parsing has substantiated claims Chiruka is actually stingier with mon drops from what I've seen, only real argument is that it's harder and takes longer, and it will be much more likely you can solo Faimon or Aiden hell before Chiruka hell.
(Incidentally, and this should be apparent, once you can do those on hell, everything below Faimon on the map is pointless for xp, as if you're pressed for time, then you should do the dimensional rifts and get it done even more quickly)
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Post by Kohreyn on Jun 17, 2015 17:40:28 GMT -8
Hey guys. I didn't want to start a new thread. Anyway could I get advice on who I should 6 star next.
So far I can auto giants b7 and do b8 manually when I get to boss. Most the time anyway. Dragons is tougher but can easily do b6 on auto 99% of the time.
Also I have some decent mons...not so decent runes...working on it. I guess the point of that is... should I 6* someone I have better runes for or 6* the best monster I got.
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Post by vakhir on Jun 18, 2015 0:31:44 GMT -8
I would've made a new thread, gives you a spot to repost. Now people in this one see it flagged but it's unrelated.
With Eladriel's ridiculous leader skill, I would probably go pure wind (or nearly pure) for GB10. Eladriel / Lushen / Shannon / Bernard / Chasun or Bella.
It's a bit dodgy on auto for Acasis to always properly shield the team, but in theory, that mitigation is enough to let Eladriel heal by himself. The real problem I have with it is he can't group heal. He can, however, fix someone dying, and the leader skill is obscenely strong, so I really want him in there. Since you're probably bringing a group heal, Chasun or Bella isn't that big a deal. Bella will probably need to be a 6 to feel perfectly safe considering the lead won't affect him, but aside from personal safety, would bring more to the run than Chasun. Chasun is the one I would trust to solo heal the earliest, but when bringing two, Eladriel is a gimme for the lead, and I would much prefer the ATB and sieze from Bella for group healing, Eladriel can grab single people hit on retals or rez them as necessary. Acasis with Lushen together will make runs a lot faster, though, if Acasis was a 6 and went spd/atk/atk or spd/critd/atk (I think it's a lot easier to just go double atk, she has exceptional base atk and you want a lot of spd subs, conflicts with getting enough crit and more crit d to rationalize it). I've used tanky, dotty, and atk Acasises as reps until I no longer needed them, and spd/atk/atk with spd, atk and acc subs was my absolute favorite. The Acasis swap I guarantee would work at high rune levels, sort of a luxury thing you could swap to over time.
Shannon and Bella may both need to be 6'd. The run will almost positively still work with Chasun, and both Chasun and Bella are all-through-the-game mons, don't think Chasun is hurt by the fact you have Eladriel. They function differently, anyway. Both would be eventual 6s. Whether you start with one or the other, doesn't matter too much, but you will eventually want the luxury of having multiple dispels for fast DB10 runs, and that's both Megan and Bella together, so despite Chasun being my second 6, I would go with Bella here.
I would do Bella before Shannon just because you're almost never going to use Shannon in PVP, and she'll need significantly better runes + the 6 to do high floors of ToA. Lower floors I simply don't need her, and I didn't end up using her once through 90 floors last time. If you're doing both, then definitely Bella first.
You have the Veromos, so you do have alternative options, like Veromos/Chasun or Bella/Lushen/Shannon/Bernard, as well as going very very tanky in an attempt to simply win, like Veromos/Eladriel/Bella/Shannon/Bernard, but considering who you already have 6'd, I wouldn't build for that. Lushen speeds runs up too fast to not bring him.
Been bouncing it around in my head. Obviously you want to 6 others soon, like Vero, but yeah, I'm sticking with my initial gut. Eladriel(L)/Bella/Lushen/Shannon/Bernard, which will mean 6 Bella then Shannon.
You do have an awful lot of otherwise-worthy 6s. Verde / Chloe / Arnold / Rakan / Chasun / Veromos are all exceptional. Verde/Eladriel/Bella/Megan/Veromos would probably truck DB10 and be able to go for the boss if Veromos was fast enough to solo cleanse (and on violent, with tons of spd, verde's lead, and verde's atb, he totally would be). You also have Chloe in there as an option (if you weren't killing towers, you could go without a rez and do Verde/Chloe/Bella/Megan/Veromos if Vero needed help, but he really wouldn't).
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Post by Kohreyn on Jun 18, 2015 8:07:54 GMT -8
Thanks a ton vakhir! You're awesome man. Thats where I was leaning towards. I was hitting GB10 last night with the group you mentioned. Successful while using the targeting while on auto through 1-4 and manually attacking the boss.
Also, I don't have good violent runes for bella, is that a future goal I should set? Is swift adequate? Violent plus spd stats the best route?
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Post by vakhir on Jun 18, 2015 9:30:13 GMT -8
Swift would be his best pre violent, although I think he is better as swift/focus hp/hp/acc with spd substats or spd/hp/hp with acc substats. If you can't double hp rune him, he can still feel fragile, which means picking up a significant amount of slack in substat rolls. If a spd and acc rune both rolled crazy hp subs, then that'd be okay too, especially as a 6. It's just the concern of being plenty fast and then not surviving. Also wouldn't recommend a hp and a def rune because you'll use him a lot in pvp, too much def breaking and ignore defense. Shannon is a lot safer to have a hp and a def rune, her defense is relatively stronger than her hp pool, and she only really sees dungeons. Occasionally that would bite you in the ass, like that DK HoH with the Arnolds extorting, but she would've struggled to survive that with double hp anyway. If you wanted a short-term solution, though, for GB10 purposes (and when she isn't being Lushened), hp/def on Bella is fine, his base defense is good (as you'd hope from a defense type). If you had a 6 star defense rune with great subs, I'd use it over a crappy hp rune or something, no question.
Keep in mind, swift doesn't do anything special. It's a chunk of stats as a bonus from 4 runes. If you can cobble something that nets you a better package from 4 other runes, regardless of the sets they are, do that. If luck tilted a certain way, it is entirely possible you have a fatal HP rune that's a 6 star, had a spd sub, you rolled it out of curiosity, and it hit all 4 times. 4 runes like that would annihilate a mediocre swift set, wouldn't even be close. Just keep in mind the ballpark idea (finding that acceptable mixture of acc cap, not dying, and everything else into speed) and play with rune combinations on paper until you see something you like.
Bella does eventually want violent though, yes.
My ideal for Bella would be Spd/Hp/Hp Violent/Nemesis with accuracy capped from subs and as many spd subs as possible, if Com2Us were letting me play build-a-bear workshop with my monsters.
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Post by hazelthorn on Jun 18, 2015 10:11:39 GMT -8
Why not use revenge on Bella? With his def break on 1st skill, he seems like an ideal candidate for this set no?
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Post by vakhir on Jun 18, 2015 10:46:25 GMT -8
There's nothing wrong with revenge, I would just prefer nemesis. Both make him more dangerous in PVP, but I would almost always want nemesis in PVE. You tend to be faster than what you're fighting in PVE, stuff you want to break is already likely broken by the time you're retaliating, and places like ToA, with all the mob types, are most likely not hitting Bella often unless they're dark, and ToA teams tend to be CC-heavy where you're not being hit often anyway. Revenging someone under immunity in PVP, like the very common Chloe/Lushen or Kat/whatever bombs people farm glory with, also does nothing, especially when base damage like from Bella is so weak. Only real purpose is loading the break.
I'd want both effects, but you can't have both worlds without losing violent, which isn't worth it at all. IMO the biggest selling point of /revenge is it can juke someone bringing their dark tank by def breaking and drawing fire away from where they originally wanted it. It can also happen at an inopportune moment, although people really should be very careful about ever touching any def-break-on-1 mon and assume it's revenge. Anyway, so many AOs go zergy to clear wings that I think nemesis suits the environment better. Stealing a turn to be able to heal can be a lifesaver, especially when on defense with violent because your chance to take multiple turns is so high. Meanwhile in PVE, if you're taking a big spike, you don't care about def breaking, you care about stabilizing, and nemesis is helping you get back up. Also, if Bella doesn't have a heal up, you get to def break on the turn anyway.
I like revenge a lot more than nemesis on some monsters, just not on Bella. I would take revenge over nemesis on Darion, no question at all. And I'm not saying there aren't times revenge would have been better, either. I've gotted dicked over, or nearly dicked over, by Bellas runed both ways. Keep in mind just how bad a Bella butting in line on turn 1 is, though. Bella's heal has an ATB buff. Not only does Bella cut in line and heal back up, but the rest of the team probably all gets to go too. You quickly go from preparing to click a button for your coup de grace and then watch 9 violent chain procs as the enemy team tops up, buffs, and starts laying into you.
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