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Post by d987654321 on Jun 18, 2015 10:42:22 GMT -8
Ok, my brain is limited; therefore, I am asking for some generic advice. Can someone tell me their thoughts on farming for 1 mana, 2, for XP, and 3, for a good combination of both. With this advice, I am looking for generically speaking which scenarios give the most bang for the buck? There is a lot to read out there and a lot of opinions, but they go into so much detail, that I sometimes get confused, as to which ones generally are the best to run. So I guess I could say that I am looking for a simple answer, if that is possible.
Thanks.
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Post by hazelthorn on Jun 18, 2015 18:58:24 GMT -8
Lucky day for you. I kept track on a lot of my runs while farming. I guess this should be helpful. However, I farm with Lushen only so I don't have any stats for a lot of stages that people consider as nice farming places if he can't solo them.
Keep in mind that these values are per energy spent. Which means I recorded the energy that I got back on each run, averaged it and substracted it from the cost of the stage. However, on average, I didn't find any obvious difference between the stages which generally oscillates between 0.7 and 0.8 energy return/stage, whatever the difficulty. Some people think that the energy return is better on faimon but from my stats that's not the case and Faimon gives the same energy return than Hydeni hell or Aiden forest hard.
The XP is for using 3 fodders and there are at least 100 runs per stage
Faimon 1 normal: 1021 XP, 925 mana
Hydeni 5 hell: 1255XP, 665 mana
Hydeni 4 hell: 1291XP, 669 mana
Aiden forest 1 hard: 1212XP, 928 mana
Chiruka 1 normal: 1260XP, 1008 mana
You can see that there is not much difference between different stages of the same map at the same difficulty level (compare hydeni 4 and 5). In my case the best option would be chiruka 1 normal but my Lushen is not able to solo it yet so I go there only when I have 5* or 6* monsters to level at the same time.
I usually farm on Aiden Forest 1 hard since the XP/energy is just slightly lower than hydeni hell but the mana/energy is way higher. However, I still farm hydeni sometimes when I don't have a lot of time since the run are a bit faster and the energy spent faster since it costs 5 energy.
I also find the drop of 3* to be pretty good in Aiden hard with 5 grim reapers in 137 runs. I got only 1 3* high elemental in hydeni hell on 100 runs. However, hell mode drops 2* rainbowmon (3 in 100 run) which in the end gives more or less the same thing assuming you have enough 2* fodders. I probably need more runs though to verify if there is actually a difference between stages. However people seem to consider as a general rule that 3* drop more often in hell mode.
Then I guess you have to decide based on what monster you use for farming.
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Post by vakhir on Jun 18, 2015 23:54:16 GMT -8
There is zero difference between stages 1-6 of a map. You are free to pick whichever is easiest. Faimon is not better energy return, energy return is normalized. 0.8 for normals, 0.9 for hards, 1.0 for hells. Drop rate of 3*s changes for normal/hard/hell, there was a chart recently from extensive sampling that had 1/2/3/rainbow odds, and it was a significant boost comparing normal to hell. Can't find it atm. Exp + mana efficiency makes anyplace below Faimon on the map a comparatively poor choice, as rune prices go up a lot for the rest. Fodder efficiency has Faimon and Chiruka in a special class of their own because of the lack of 1 stars. Rainbowmon rates help affect hell's standings, but not enough to make Hydeni a strong choice compared to faimon or later. My personal preference is faimon/aiden hard over hydeni hell as well. I have a hell-capable, soon two whenever I level up an Arnold I pulled from an event fire scroll, and I would rather have fast runs burning through faimon/aiden hard. There are people that have recorded many thousands of runs and gone into the math analyzing everything, do some reddit searches, you'll find more than you want to know (and a bunch of people throwing guesswork out their asses, I love people responding to questions about scroll rates guesstimating nat 5s are a 4-5% drop chance). There are also websites, such as beathem.org/summoners-war-experience-guide-areas/, that get into various charts. These on that site do not include the mana, but people on various forums have done that work and attempted to weight everything to give people a general sense. I find it's better to leave the xp and mana efficiency separate. Give an efficiency for xp per stamina, per time spent (which is relative to you and your monster), mana per stamina, and fodder per stamina. Some go ahead and lump fodder's effective xp value in with the xp per monster, and I've seen some that will take unknown scroll aggregated xp values per summon, look at scroll droprates, and plug that into the xp / stamina value as well. Also understand that anytime your carrier is helping level itself, you are gaining a massive efficiency boost. I'm leveling my Samurai as a 6. He's on junk runes I had laying around, no stacked substats, and it's not a vampire set or something, and he can only AE if he procs after attacking once, so he's not good at soloing. He can still mindlessly clear Faimon normal, though. While you can compare Faimon normal to hard with charts, it doesn't work the same when you have 4 monsters gaining xp in normal compared to 3 in hard. This is even more relevant when it's a monster that would otherwise get xp at a very slow rate (I will mostly be using him for pvp and very niche ToA stages where I'd need ST water burst to make it more consistent, and ToA is unlikely). If at all possible, I will let my 6 star do a 'less efficient' place. I also don't keep them by themselves, I still send 3 fodder with them, so I can do the super efficient runs as long as possible. I cringe when I see monsters by themselves. Those giant xp numbers per run are great and all, but it's missing an opportunity to have otherwise impossible efficiency. This is even better during an event, like now, where the cheaper runs are weighted differently because more runs of them is more chances at the otherwise nonexistant boxes. I've gotten a lot of crystals worth of scrolls, mana, xp boosts and essences. Some people are already electing to spam normals (only faimon or chiruka apply in that situation), and most 6s can do this. Someone really slow like Chasun or Bella or Shannon or something, I wouldn't bother. |
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Post by Crystos on Jun 19, 2015 1:26:29 GMT -8
I would only add here to make sure you use your friends' monsters to farm for you whenever possible. When I am on a 2x Exp I go through my friends' reps like a bag of potato chips.
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Post by d987654321 on Jun 19, 2015 4:52:22 GMT -8
Thanks for all the advice, this is exactly what I needed!
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Post by Crystos on Jun 19, 2015 16:56:02 GMT -8
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Post by hazelthorn on Jun 19, 2015 19:27:14 GMT -8
Nice link. I didn't know this website.
However, I agree with some of the comments that say that their energy return is wrong. With 170 runs on Hydeni 5 hell I have 0.72 energy/run, nowhere near 1 energy/run. And 0.71 in Aiden forest hard with 139 runs.
One of the guy in the comment says that energy return is independent of the difficulty and I totally agree with him. I think energy drops with a fixed chance/monster. So as long as the map has the same number of monsters the energy return is going to be the same, whatever the difficulty. I actually verified that on Mount White Ragon where I was farming before my Lushen can do Hydeni hell and where there are less monsters/stage. I had an average energy return of 0.5 in hell mode, very far from 1 (on 57 runs only though).
However, it shouldn't impact the number and the conclusions too much...
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Post by vakhir on Jun 20, 2015 1:11:33 GMT -8
That chart is an incomplete picture, it is not overall value. They are looking at the xp dropped during the run; it does not factor in mana or fodder. Fodder is xp in another form, but mana value is hard to establish relative to experience. It's easier just to see two numbers and decide for yourself. Hydeni is a bad idea because of the fodder/mana combination, mostly the mana. No one ever has suggested the raw dropped xp of Hydeni is bad. It's lower than stages after it on the map, but in terms of relative ease, you'll likely be comparing a hell to a hard or normal, and hell raw xp is something it's good at. However, in terms of mana, it's something like 60% of what you could pull in Faimon or farther, which is a huge, huge drop. The runes themselves are even worse individually, but some drops aren't runes, and the non-rune mana isn't that different. If you never really looked at the rune values, here: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NWiAXNxjvfNQzWTPGML2BVS-XvWH6aKOWH49s8JsmhQ/edit#gid=0This, incidentally, is why Giants is crap mana compared to Dragons. The rune value just drops off like a rock. Faimon, in a vacuum, is superior to Aiden despite Aiden actually giving more xp per run because of fodder. That is, unless you have a much faster clearer for Aiden, in which case for your sanity you would stick to there until you got a similar speed in Faimon (or Chiruka, but that's a much steeper requirement to be fast instead of a slog). My Lushen does Aiden much faster than Veromos or Tyron do fairmon hard, and waaaay faster than veromos does faimon hell, so I tend to stay there despite faimon being an overall better deal. |
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