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Post by kohreyn on Jun 23, 2015 15:37:34 GMT -8
So I popped a ms the other day and the rare green lightning struck. A water valkerja was left standing. I was pretty pumped. I think I fist pumped and realized I was sitting alone while my son napped lol.
I started looking into her and realized there are many routes to go. I'm really focusing on runes so I figured I'd start with making her a pve beast. Later focusing on pvp. What's your guys opinions on builds?
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Post by vakhir on Jun 23, 2015 17:30:04 GMT -8
She's so strong they actually gave cutesy names to her two main builds, Tankmilla and Critmilla. Critmilla isn't some weird thing having to do with crit capping, she wants atk/cd/atk with crit subs getting her into the 60s or 70s at least like most other DPS, it's just a better name than DPSMilla or something.
I haven't used her as a rep to be able to draw a line in the sand about where in the distance between the two builds she stops being able to solo Faimon hell, Tankmilla has an easier time but Critmilla will go much faster, just needs better runes. At some point she has too much hp to really be able to die to scenarios, but ends up clearing it like a Rina or Chow. She will mindlessly be able to destroy hard as a 6 star basically no matter what you do to her, hell is a question of when, and that's without runing specifically to farm. Not having to rune specifically to farm hell and being able to actually do it is a very nice luxury.
Since Camilla gains hp per turn, whether you are going for either spec, or somewhere in the middle, she wants Violent. Like, really badly. Rage/blade will be the best DPS set until Violent, I guess, but wouldn't feel nearly as good, and Tankmilla would be hodgepodge, wouldn't matter too much. Good tanky swift runes, good tanky fatal runes, energy/guard, it would really, really not matter since any combination of dps and tankiness helps her and you're better off using great runes than making a set. Guard synergizes fine in comparison to energy, she heals per turn but it's like going for hp or defense when you have % healers, they don't care which. She is not like Arnold where a giant pile of hp gives her slightly better burst utility, so you'll probably hate the feel of pure tank with no speed whatsoever. I'm not sure I'd be happy with any of those builds for a Tankmilla besides on Violent.
No matter what you spec, a Tessarion will hard counter you, but people need to pull him, rune him, and use him properly. That also means he has to be a tank Tessarion, because of all the passive creatures he's pulled out against, she can be the most dangerous to him. No possible way to stop her from hitting Tessarion unless you pray to RNG with more fire mons available or taunt, and the taunt will clear if she's crit.
Tankmilla is a lot more useful in PVP compared to PVE, where you can use her against teams she'd be taking hits, and the crit reduction actually does something. PVE mobs don't crit as much, so she needs some semblance of HP to prevent getting gibbed by raw hits, though her self healing makes her very resilient when not one-shottable. She can totally function in a Rina/Chow role as a self-sufficient tank if you so chose, in situations where she actually could be tanking, but you tend to need a single PVE tank and nothing else in only rare ToA levels where the real danger is a single element. In PVP Critmilla is a lot scarier than Tankmilla (unless someone runs into a Rina-type problem and can't actually kill her), and doesn't need as much survival as a normal mon because of the dmg mitigation thanks to crit suppression and the debuff cleansing, making it super hard to def break and keep it up. Some people make retired wind mons into Camilla killers that avoid crit substats everywhere, best shot of being able to def break and then burst. Whenever people have a mon built to counter a single creature, you know you've got something neato. It's true that a Critmilla will be super, super vulnerable when Tessarion oblivions her, but if you go pure Tankmilla, she has the Rina / Dagora / tank Chow / Ramagos / etc. problem of "you can 100% ignore this monster, which is contributing next to nothing, until everything else is dead", and then she'll get dragged down at the end.
I would probably go for full or nearly full DPS, like either atk/cd/atk or atk/cd/hp with crit subs. Violent/blade or Violent/xxx with sub-par blades and having amazing other runes to use, which could be likely considering you'll probably want to use 1/3/5 for Violent so you aren't stuck with a 5 star rune in 2/4/6, you'd only need to find one 6 for Violent. For complete overall use, I think the single HP rune makes her more well-rounded, especially starting out.
Here are some Camilla stats that are hell-capable farmers that I like the looks of as all-arounders:
20k hp 2k atk 75 crit 165cd
16.5k hp 1900 atk 95 crit 175cd
You can take hits in ToA with that level of hp, that is probably HP subs and not an HP rune on the second one, first one is probably an HP rune. Both have very nice subs. That's just a couple real Camilla examples with stat loads I like. She could go basically anywhere with that. Any more hp and you aren't useful enough in PVE. I love mons like this because they perform in dangerous situations you can't safely bring normal DPS, like HoHs. You sometimes have to sacrifice to bring other DPS there, like Sigmarus using a single HP rune, and at least Camilla synergizes with having more HP, not to mention having very nice base hp. 12k base is pretty stellar.
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Post by vakhir on Jun 23, 2015 17:49:27 GMT -8
Oh, it should go without saying, but Camilla is going to immediately shove herself into your AD.
Eladriel / Bella / Camilla / Rakan is a bunch of terrifying monsters. Camilla lead by default since Rakan or Eladriel only mod themselves.
Veromos / Bella / Camilla / Rakan trades rez for cleanse, also have the option of going Vero or Camilla lead.
Depending on how often you let Camilla lead (probably never HoH or ToA, and she'd be stronger in HoH than ToA anyway), you can use that to guide her crit total. She caps with 67 if she's leading a lot.
Big weakness is only 1 break, either way, with elements split up, so monsters will only focus dark mons thanks to Bella being drawn like a magnet. Makes it a lot harder to hide a monster in your lineup, though.
Bella is a potential weak link in both line-ups, not in terms of mon strength, but in terms of a target. Removing def break is super important, and people might try to kill off a DPS instead. Eladriel adds a significant amount of protection to that. If you go after Eladriel first, Eladriel can have an enormous tank. Bella first will get him rezzed. If you go for a DPS, well, then both healers are alive, including the rez, and either DPS is still a threat with break left alone.
Also some fun stuff you could do with a tanky Verdehile speeding up the lineup, Veromos / Verdehile / Bella / Camilla would be a bit different and quite hard to get control over with Veromos cleansing like an asshole while Verde spams boosts.
Also have the Chloe option, though I might lean towards Vero's sustain cleanse over trusting the AI to not misuse fanatic on AD, especially when you can safely go so tanky.
I don't know which will have the most overall performance, I'm scared of all 3 for different reasons. I actually might be the most concerned about the 3rd because it's hard to know exactly what to expect between the ATB boosts and likely 3/4 of the team on violent runes. That, of course, has to be weighed against "what happens when Bella breaks and Rakan and Camilla both take turns?", the answer to which is probably "oh, I die". It also helps out the threat level of your two DPS if they end up being slow.
I'm quite jelly, so many strong options. This is also assuming 6 stars and good runes, not using current mons, just playing with future ideas. I'm sitting on 545 stones and counting for 12 days from now, Camilla / Laika / Verde all together.
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Post by hazelthorn on Jun 24, 2015 5:28:46 GMT -8
OMG! You have Eladriel, Camilla and Rakan!!! So jealous  |
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Post by Crystos on Jun 26, 2015 18:49:38 GMT -8
Camilla. She might be burstable now with the upcoming changes. I don't know. It's hard to determine from the description. "The effect of recovering 20% of the lost HP has been changed to recover 10% of the max HP."
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Post by vakhir on Jun 26, 2015 19:12:11 GMT -8
That doesn't really do anything to being burstable. Her burst prevention is mitigating damage taken from crits (and the fact they will spam cleanse her so it's very hard to maintain break or dots).
Self-sustain is hurt below 50% hp and improved above 50% hp. In that sense, tankmillas come out better than critmillas because it's harder for them to drop below 50% in the first place.
If she is currently at 60%, she has lost 40% of her hp, and 20% of that is 8% of her max, so she'd heal for more in the new system, and if she were at 40%, it's the reverse, if she were at 40%, she'd heal for 12% of max now and only 10 in the new system.
Still, until you get to dangerously low extremes (5% hp remaining, she heals nearly double in the old system, but that's super thin ice) there is very little change. If you are trying to chip away at one, and barely make a dent, she's actually stronger in the patch, but I really dislike tankmillas for PVP, she's just a wall like Rina but at least Rina can crossheal. I don't think tankmillas have any purpose whatsoever being used for PVP. Even making a stall team for rush hour, lot of people at that level have Tessarion now, or some other tool that would work on Camilla, and the less bite you put in your comp, the easier it is to bring tools to speed the match up. Farming, you just need to find the fastest build possible, which means starting with tankmilla and swapping for damage until she can't survive, or starting with a critmilla and adding defenses until she lives. When you aren't farming, being a wall almost never works in other PVE besides mono-element places, which is just SDs. HoHs have separate floors, and a pure tankmilla can't contribute anything besides surviving. If the hardest floor was wind, that helps, but you could bring a different water tank that actually contributed.
She can still do *SOME* damage because her 2nd scales on enemy hp, so you could be tanky and have like hp/cdmg/hp and build like an Eshir (or hp version of Copper) or any other hp/def scaling monster you intend to dps with. I'm just a lot more scared of hybrids or yolo millas.
I think it's more in line with "we don't want unsupported monsters to be quite so ridiculous", which is why Veromos and Camilla both got hit. It's not so much the annoyance of a last man standing as they're the last ones standing because it's too hard to drag down while support is still alive. It also means a string of violent procs won't bring her back from the brink of death as fast, but right now it's crazy how much she can heal when she's very injured.
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