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Post by Crystos on Jun 24, 2015 1:43:29 GMT -8
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Post by vakhir on Jun 24, 2015 8:09:38 GMT -8
It nerfs his hell farming and makes it easier to target him when he's part of ADs, it doesn't ruin him.
If you were ganking him and had speeds for your break/gank close together, he was going to be dying anyway, he doesn't have the world's biggest tank. If he's loaded up with debuffs and group isn't, it prevents a triple violent proc from healing him for 45-60% of his health, which is nice if you need to pick away at him more slowly.
It should affect GB10/DB10/ToA very little, he still does his job AE stunning and cleansing. He just doesn't literally go everywhere anymore. He will still be used in defense, but won't be blindly present in almost 100% of them, and he won't be a hell farmer that can do so without specially runing for it.
There should be 0 regrets or changes in terms of when/if you would want to make or 6 him. He was supposed to help by providing a good monster that can consistently help with debuffs, don't think Com2Us realized they were making one of the top 5 or 10 monsters in the game and making it a fusion. Really, right now, he is used at all levels of PVP on both arena AO/AD and GW AO/AD, almost every team using him the higher you get, he carries GB10, he carries DB10, he can do ToA as both CC/dots and a cleanser, he can solo faimon hell, he carries all 5 element b10s, he can do HoH, and he can use the same build for all of it and be effective. That's a bit much.
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Post by hazelthorn on Jun 24, 2015 9:39:44 GMT -8
Yes, agree with you Vakhir. I didn't realize the first time I read this that his 3rd skill is going to heal him for 3% for each debuff removed which is the same thing than now if all your team is under a debuff effect.
He will still be a pretty good monster, the heal from the 3rd skill is just a bonus. The main interest is still the debuff removal. I wasn't planning to use him for farming anyway.
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Post by tyranise on Jun 24, 2015 21:53:02 GMT -8
Guild wars participant number change will be applied at next patch too i think it s great we can fight with 25 ppl now
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Post by sunnysideup on Jun 25, 2015 13:30:49 GMT -8
I just observed a forum discussion about "dog piling". And I am a little irritated.Even if I haven't heard this expression before I think I got the meaning. One reason for me feeling so comfortable here is the way all guild members interacted with each other so far. Helping each other to find out, where our liabilities are to help improve our mons and tactics. Crystos and Vakhir put so much effort and time in the support of everyone.
I have lots of things to optimize. And it takes time. But I am working hard on it.
At the moment I am far from being as good as out top fighters. So, when a battle starts, I choose, lets say, manageable targets, so I don't constantly embarrass myself and our guild with loosing every battle. But I can say that since I am a member of this guild i've become more and more selfconfident in battling stronger opponents.
Long story short: It would be nice, if everyone will get the chance of development, knowing that each and everyone does his very best to succeed in battle and as a team, even if it means that less stronger members choose less stronger opponents. ;0)
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Post by Crystos on Jun 25, 2015 18:19:05 GMT -8
Hi sunnyside. Was this a forum discussion or a chat channel discussion? If forum, I'd like to read it too if you have a link. People should always attack the highest HP targets they believe they can beat. A lot of members choose to attack exactly at noon and midnight for this reason. Because the extra point opponents are still green. In the beginning, people would "dogpile" on targets that offer extra points, which is selfish. The result was a lot of unnecessary losses. I worked very hard to gradually replace those players with members who consider the bigger picture. We still have some dogpiling going on. But only when the outcome of the battle is already determined. If I saw someone hit a red opponent to get the extra points when the victory was still uncertain I would not be happy with that person. For instance, I overheard one player brag in chat that he only hits +3 targets. That member is never in the lineup, now, even though he has very good monsters. Because we have members now who care and make sacrifices to earn our shared victories they sometimes scrutinize the battle decisions others make. That's normal. As long as the chat conversations don't become overly emotional. You shouldn't be thinking about the possibility of being embarrassed if you lose. Just pick the highest HP target you think you can beat and learn from the outcome. That's all anybody expects. I am glad you feel comfortable here.  |
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Post by solomunkane on Jun 25, 2015 19:46:35 GMT -8
I for one am pretty vocal to calling out people who dogpile early on. And its easy to understand why people do it. If you just attack the +3 opponents then you get much more guild points. Sure yeah who cares if they have already been beaten 2 or 3 or 8,000 times already, this will get my my ifrit faster..... But what happens is the sword distribution across the entire battle gets skewed. And what eventually happens (and has already happened) is that we are 0.1% away from winning the match. And the person who said "skrew it, ill attack this +3 who is in the red" early on in the match literally contributes nothing to the end result of the match.
There are times where it doesnt matter. Like when we are againt a farm guild and everyone has 1* monsters as their defense. Then yeah sure we will win with our eyes closed. But on the matches where everything matters, that one person who took a battle selfishly will literally loose it. This is a guild, we are a team, and we cant win if everyone is looking out for themselves.
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Post by sunnysideup on Jun 25, 2015 21:08:35 GMT -8
I for one am pretty vocal to calling out people who dogpile early on. And its easy to understand why people do it. If you just attack the +3 opponents then you get much more guild points. Sure yeah who cares if they have already been beaten 2 or 3 or 8,000 times already, this will get my my ifrit faster..... But what happens is the sword distribution across the entire battle gets skewed. And what eventually happens (and has already happened) is that we are 0.1% away from winning the match. And the person who said "skrew it, ill attack this +3 who is in the red" early on in the match literally contributes nothing to the end result of the match. There are times where it doesnt matter. Like when we are againt a farm guild and everyone has 1* monsters as their defense. Then yeah sure we will win with our eyes closed. But on the matches where everything matters, that one person who took a battle selfishly will literally loose it. This is a guild, we are a team, and we cant win if everyone is looking out for themselves. Hi Crystos, hi Solo! So it seems that I didn't get the meaning of dogpiling! I was not aware of the fact, that you get extra points for hitting easy targets. I was of the assumption that the pointoutcome will increase the stronger your opponent is. Call me naive, but that would be reasonable battleconcept. And I don't have enough battle experience to know otherwise (as I said: I am hitting manageable opponents). I rarely fought really hard targets and if I did, I lost ;0). So I didn't know how a battle outcome would have been if winning such a battle. That said: shouldn't we consider the possibility, that other guildmembers are as "naive" as I am? That their focus is on winning battles not having any clue about the reward situation? For all "hotshots" in here it is common knowledge but for the new ones probably not. Well I won't stress this topic any longer. Cut the German girl some slac, because some english expressions are unknown to me. But as a result I know a little more about the game!!;0) Thanks for the patience and the nice reply to my topic. su |
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Post by vakhir on Jun 25, 2015 23:21:32 GMT -8
No, weaker targets give less. You get pts / win based on the guild's rank plus 1, 2, or 3 extra based on what +1/2/3 the person was given. This is per win, not per opponent, so hitting 3 +3s and winning all 6 is 18 more than hitting +0s. The bonus points are based on arena ranking, so it is not necessarily representative of their monsters. This is why sometimes a +1 is left alone, harder fight than everyone around them. I think it's ordered by end of the week rating, not day to day, but I'm not positive.
You get everything you received doubled as a guild victory reward on offense, so if you got, say, 52 points worth of wins, you get 52 on the victory. There might be something baked in as a flat reward, not sure, but it does scale based on your personal point score.
Additionally, your % of the entire guild's point values determines what share of the summoning stones you get at the end of the week. If everyone hit equal ratios of targets and won an equal amount of the time, everyone gets the same amount. If you are the only person with a flawless record and always hit +3s, you get more of the stones than someone losing and hitting weaker targets. It's fair when people are actually able to contribute more and are given a larger reward share, not as far when some people are hitting +3 farm targets and others are hitting +1s with real defenses. As long as the guild doesn't lose, you yourself stand to gain more by being greedy, though you lose *WAY* more points hitting 3 +3s and losing the war than hitting 3 +0s but winning the war. Again, the game basically doubles what you earned, so being greedy to the point of losing the war is very, very short-sighted, and hurts you (and everybody else).
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Post by Crystos on Jun 26, 2015 3:17:27 GMT -8
... you get extra points for hitting easy targets. I feel like I confused you, sunnyside. Sorry. "Extra points" are the +3 (+2, +1) you see next to the names of TOP opponents. Dogpiling is when teammates repeatedly attack those opponents out of greed, beating them into the ground when there are still green colored, high HP opponents to the right of the screen that don't come with extra points. You are not guilty of that. You weren't going for the TOP opponents to grab extra points. So don't worry about this too much. Just fight the highest HP (green, yellowish brown) opponents you think you can beat. |
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Post by sunnysideup on Jun 26, 2015 7:13:57 GMT -8
No, weaker targets give less. You get pts / win based on the guild's rank plus 1, 2, or 3 extra based on what +1/2/3 the person was given. This is per win, not per opponent, so hitting 3 +3s and winning all 6 is 18 more than hitting +0s. The bonus points are based on arena ranking, so it is not necessarily representative of their monsters. This is why sometimes a +1 is left alone, harder fight than everyone around them. I think it's ordered by end of the week rating, not day to day, but I'm not positive. You get everything you received doubled as a guild victory reward on offense, so if you got, say, 52 points worth of wins, you get 52 on the victory. There might be something baked in as a flat reward, not sure, but it does scale based on your personal point score. Additionally, your % of the entire guild's point values determines what share of the summoning stones you get at the end of the week. If everyone hit equal ratios of targets and won an equal amount of the time, everyone gets the same amount. If you are the only person with a flawless record and always hit +3s, you get more of the stones than someone losing and hitting weaker targets. It's fair when people are actually able to contribute more and are given a larger reward share, not as far when some people are hitting +3 farm targets and others are hitting +1s with real defenses. As long as the guild doesn't lose, you yourself stand to gain more by being greedy, though you lose *WAY* more points hitting 3 +3s and losing the war than hitting 3 +0s but winning the war. Again, the game basically doubles what you earned, so being greedy to the point of losing the war is very, very short-sighted, and hurts you (and everybody else). You are just unbelievable ;0) Your knowledge of every detail is amazing. Thank you again for these informations. |
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Post by sunnysideup on Jun 26, 2015 7:38:09 GMT -8
I for one am pretty vocal to calling out people who dogpile early on. And its easy to understand why people do it. If you just attack the +3 opponents then you get much more guild points. Sure yeah who cares if they have already been beaten 2 or 3 or 8,000 times already, this will get my my ifrit faster..... But what happens is the sword distribution across the entire battle gets skewed. And what eventually happens (and has already happened) is that we are 0.1% away from winning the match. And the person who said "skrew it, ill attack this +3 who is in the red" early on in the match literally contributes nothing to the end result of the match. There are times where it doesnt matter. Like when we are againt a farm guild and everyone has 1* monsters as their defense. Then yeah sure we will win with our eyes closed. But on the matches where everything matters, that one person who took a battle selfishly will literally loose it. This is a guild, we are a team, and we cant win if everyone is looking out for themselves. I ment no offense. It could have been me, doing the wrong thing unintentionally. With the detailed information Vakhir and Crystos have given me, I now know the concept of the battle a little bit better. I am more often than not going with my gut as you know ;0). Not always a wise choice ;0) |
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Post by sunnysideup on Jun 26, 2015 8:06:59 GMT -8
... you get extra points for hitting easy targets. I feel like I confused you, sunnyside. Sorry. "Extra points" are the +3 (+2, +1) you see next to the names of TOP opponents. Dogpiling is when teammates repeatedly attack those opponents out of greed, beating them into the ground when there are still green colored, high HP opponents to the right of the screen that don't come with extra points. You are not guilty of that. You weren't going for the TOP opponents to grab extra points. So don't worry about this too much. Just fight the highest HP (green, yellowish brown) opponents you think you can beat. Don't worry, I got it....now;0) But being honest, I wasn't even aware of the +1/+2/+3 before you and Vakhir mentioned it!!! So, at least for me, it was the right thing to do to create this thread. I am so sorry, that you two have to state the obvious,again, because I didn't pay attention to the details?  I am working on it. But I can't promise it won't happen again ? su |
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I am working on it. But I can't promise it won't happen again