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Rules
Dec 15, 2015 10:13:05 GMT -8
Post by Crystos on Dec 15, 2015 10:13:05 GMT -8
These rules have already been in play, so they don't need to be voted on. I am stating them explicitly now as a reminder to everyone about what we all expect from each other.
6 Point Rule: This rule is in effect in most civilized guilds. It is also known as the 3-2-1 rule. It states that the most points you should take out of a battle is six (x2, of course, since there are two rounds). That means fighting +3 +3 +0, or fighting +2 +2 +2, or +3 +2 +1. However you do it, your total cannot exceed 6. Of course, you are free to take fewer points. I usually fight two zeros for the sake of the win.
Green-Yellow-Red Rule: Attack the highest HP towers you can manage. If you are one of the first to fight when the battle begins, do not beat ranked targets into the ground. You must attack green targets before yellow ones and yellow targets before red ones. This is a group effort. So develop the habit of playing unselfishly.
Easy-Peasy Rule: Strong members must leave easy defenses for weaker teammates. There are some guild member who are still developing. They need targets they can beat. And sometimes strong members lose important monsters in battle. They need targets they can beat, as well. So, push yourselves. Fight at your level!
Infractions: We all have eyes. We are all watching the guild battles. Don't leave it to the guild leaders to monitor everything. If you see something that doesn't look right, bring it up in guild chat. This will usually be all it takes to correct someone's behavior. When this has happened in the past, it has usually turned out to be a misunderstanding, anyway. So don't start off by being accusatory. If it seems like someone chose the wrong target, ask them about it. If further action is needed, let a guild leader know and post it in this thread. We will try to fix the problem.
If a member fails to correct their behavior after being told about it they may be benched for a battle. If the member insists on continuing to break the rules they will be kicked.
The point of all this is to try to keep everyone as happy as possible. We have many unselfish players in this guild who take it seriously and try their best. And they won't be happy if their efforts and sacrifices are wasted because of an ignorance of the rules.
Enforcement: People will talk to you. I will talk to you. You will get benched for a battle. Then you will be kicked. Please don't let it get that serious. Correct your mistake after the first person talks to you.
Exceptions: The rules exist to serve us all, not the other way around. Ultimately, we all have to trust each other to make the best decisions we can under time constraints. There will be mistakes. There will be times when you may have to break the rules because of team match-ups. There will be times when we need to break the rules in order not to lose a very close match. But a player who is consistently greedy will stand out in a crowd of considerate players. So stay in the considerate crowd and you will be fine.
Commentary: The 6-Point-Rule is easy to monitor and enforce. If we are all following the 6-Point-Rule then compliance with the Green-Yellow-Red Rule will follow as a natural consequence.
We have a core group of courteous players who have been here a long time. And I would rather quit the game then suddenly become a tyrant. Hopefully, we can continue going as we have been, for the most part, in a comfortable, moderate way and not land in any unhappy extremes.
There are plenty of guilds with elite players, strict rules and centralized, top-down coordination. There are even more guilds that can't win because everyone acts solely in their own interest. I started Hat Squad USA to see if a guild could be both successful and fun. We've succeeded in that in the past and you just keep getting better. So I have enormous confidence that we will continue in that way going forward, winning and having fun at the same time!
Thanks, Crystos.
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Rules
Dec 17, 2015 8:10:02 GMT -8
Post by hazelthorn on Dec 17, 2015 8:10:02 GMT -8
Thank you Crystos reminding the rules. Unfortunately this morning was a bad example of GW: When I arrived this morning, most of the +2 and +3 were already red while there were still some green and yellow 0 and +1. This results from 2 things: -At least 3 players didn't follow the 6 point rule and hit only +3 or +2 targets -At least one player didn't follow the second rule and attacked already red (or yellow) targets while there was still some green ones available. I guess there is more than one player who did that but it is sometimes kind of hard to identify them as you can't determine for sure what was the color of the target when the players attacked. You might think: " what is the problem? we won the war anyway" The problem is in that case, other guildies (in that case, me) will have to sacrifice by hitting +0 targets in order to win the Guild war and that is not fair. I think it is important to note that the 6 point rules apply as long as it doesn't contradict the green-yellow-red rule. If you arrive in the GW screen and you see a situation like the one from today and you don't want to hit exclusively +0 green targets; what you can probably do is just hit one and keep your remaining 2 swords for later, after the GW is already won. Just keep in mind that if we lose a GW because people didn't want to attack low rewarding targets, we lose the whole GW reward. In that case, the +2 or +3 additional guild points that you made by hitting higher targets are nothing compared to the loss of the whole 50 guild points from the win.
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Rules
Dec 17, 2015 13:04:50 GMT -8
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Post by Crystos on Dec 17, 2015 13:04:50 GMT -8
I'm not going to react in anger. Hazelthorn has shown we are not always acting in the interest of the guild or in consideration of our teammates. That is serious problem. Because when one player gets greedy it tempts others to follow suit. Then the people with self restraint start leaving. Inevitably, the guild becomes toxic and folds. As the guild leader it is my responsibility to stand in the way of that kind of collapse.
Consider: If we all play with fairness and common sense we will all be rewarded with a home in a successful and happy guild. That should be worth more to you than a few horded points.
Every member must reply with an acknowledgement of these rules. Comment with your in-game name. This is mandatory. I'll start.
I acknowledge and will abide by the guild rules. - Crystos.
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Rules
Dec 17, 2015 13:13:44 GMT -8
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Post by d987654321 on Dec 17, 2015 13:13:44 GMT -8
I agree....D987654321
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Rules
Dec 17, 2015 14:55:51 GMT -8
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Post by Flyojumper on Dec 17, 2015 14:55:51 GMT -8
Guild log points value, as requested by crystos: assuming fight in guardian rank: +3: 2W=18, 1W1L=9, 1W1D=10 +2: 2W=16, 1W1L=8, 1W1D=9 +1: 2W=14, 1W1L=7, 1W1D=8 +0: 2W=12, 1W1L=6, 1W1D=7
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Rules
Dec 18, 2015 1:37:38 GMT -8
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Post by pc0622 on Dec 18, 2015 1:37:38 GMT -8
I have a question: Say you fought a +3 and won both; then you fought another +3 and you won 1 and lost the other; do you have to choose a +0 so the 3-2-1 rule is followed? Or can you fight a +1 or +2 still?
Just wanted clarification cuz thats what happened to me. The rules are great, but lets face it, the harder +3s are always or usally tackled by only a few guild members and we lose monsters along the way. So to follow a 3-2-1 rule and the yellow gree red rule, it will only be possible if we have a reasonable level matched opponent... Anything on the stronger side people usually avoid them... Anyways, just wanted to know what is expected and i ll follow suit.
... Agreed to guild rules, PC0622
Hi, PC: I'm editing your post to respond to it directly. You raise good points. And you are right to point out that danger. We don't want to leave the toughest opponents for the weakest teammates. I rely on stronger players like yourself to hit the +3s so we can win. So I would ask you to use your own discretion, sizing up the adversary and playing to your level.
In the final analysis, we have to rely on each other's intelligent decision making and courtesy. There are too many variables for me to come up with a perfect set of rules.
I was reluctant to go down this road. But I was challenged to make a set of rules so I am trying. Just know that at the end of the day I am putting 90% of my faith in the people here, and only 10% in my ability to rule and micromanage from above.
I think basically if you make rules, people look for loopholes. If you trust people, they do the opposite. Hope that helps. - Crystos
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Rules
Dec 18, 2015 2:32:03 GMT -8
Post by B1337 on Dec 18, 2015 2:32:03 GMT -8
Question about the rules. I sometimes dont get to attack till later on in the battle because of work schedule. If the war is already won, does it matter what targets you attack?
I agree with the rules. B1337 I do however feel that there are exceptions to the rules a lot of the time.
Hi, B: I am editing your post so I can respond to it directly.
You are right, there will be exceptions. I thought making a set of rules would be easy. That was hubris. As to your question about the war being already won. I almost always wait to the end just so I can hit whatever high hp targets are left. But you guys have been wiping out people for the last few months. Like crazy! So I started hitting the high value targets to pad my score. I thought that was fair. Because when I use my swords on leftover zeros I fall way down on the contribution list. But it was pointed out to me that unscrupulous people could see this as an exploit and wait until the end on purpose. And that could actually cost us some wins, by forcing others to fight above their level while the win is still in question. Now I am not sure what I should do. Or what you should do. I would say, try to fight before the war is won. When you can't, if the adversary is beaten and if you also helped out in the last battle by taking less than your share of points, then make up for it with some extra points. Otherwise, follow the 3-2-1 rule. Hope that helps - Crystos
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Rules
Dec 18, 2015 7:09:17 GMT -8
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Post by sunnysideup on Dec 18, 2015 7:09:17 GMT -8
Agreed.Sunnysideup
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Rules
Dec 18, 2015 8:56:49 GMT -8
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Post by sunnysideup on Dec 18, 2015 8:56:49 GMT -8
I can see the dilemma all you strong fighters are in. I avoid the "strong" side because I would loose. Would it solved the problem when the weaker guild members start our battles after all you strong fighters finished your battles? So you would have the chance, after you lost some of your main monsters, to win the battle by attacking the "weak" side.
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Rules
Dec 18, 2015 9:25:22 GMT -8
Post by hazelthorn on Dec 18, 2015 9:25:22 GMT -8
Question about the rules. I sometimes dont get to attack till later on in the battle because of work schedule. If the war is already won, does it matter what targets you attack? For me the 6-point rules still apply but not the green-yellow-red. I think it's important to keep the 6-point rules, otherwise you can imagine a situation where someone will use his first 2 swords to hit +3 targets at the beginning of the GW, then delay his 3rd last sword for after the GW is won to hit another +3. In that case, it can result in the same situation than the one I posted above, where all +3/+2 targets are red but all the +1/0 are still green. But this is tricky situation so let's wait what Crystos think about it.
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Rules
Dec 18, 2015 9:26:43 GMT -8
Post by hazelthorn on Dec 18, 2015 9:26:43 GMT -8
Sunnysideup, I don't think avoiding the strong side is as much an issue as avoiding the weak side. If you think a +3 green opponent is too strong for you and you prefer to hit a +1 yellow thinking you have much more chance to beat it, I think it's fine.
Anyway, I am not sure that trying to order which players are going to attack first is realistic since we all have very different connection time.
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Rules
Dec 18, 2015 12:43:18 GMT -8
Post by tyranise on Dec 18, 2015 12:43:18 GMT -8
I was always fighting like that so it's okay.
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Rules
Dec 18, 2015 13:46:57 GMT -8
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Post by pc0622 on Dec 18, 2015 13:46:57 GMT -8
Awsome way to start the green-yellow-red rule guys... 3way massacre on the +3 renlador...
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Rules
Dec 18, 2015 14:43:54 GMT -8
Post by hazelthorn on Dec 18, 2015 14:43:54 GMT -8
Awsome way to start the green-yellow-red rule guys... 3way massacre on the +3 renlador... Hey pc, do you want to review your fights of the week? We can do that if you want... Do you remember last time you hit a 0 or +1?
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Rules
Dec 18, 2015 17:56:11 GMT -8
Post by Pc0622 on Dec 18, 2015 17:56:11 GMT -8
Sure bring it on Since this rule has been implemented I did hit a +0 just to see what's gonna happen ndd other ppl take on the easy +2 or +3s... put ur self in the frontline nd attack the harder +2 or+3s b4 u take a stab at me. Mind u I didn't mention any names, just pointing out the fact when we have easier target/farming guilds people become selfish. Nd yes, I usually attack all +3s in the past when it's actuallly challenging... I dun see ppl jumping at them...? I wonder why....
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Rules
Dec 18, 2015 18:52:57 GMT -8
Post by ghostly65 on Dec 18, 2015 18:52:57 GMT -8
I agree with the rules - ghostly65
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Rules
Dec 18, 2015 20:28:04 GMT -8
Post by hazelthorn on Dec 18, 2015 20:28:04 GMT -8
Sure bring it on Since this rule has been implemented I did hit a +0 just to see what's gonna happen ndd other ppl take on the easy +2 or +3s... put ur self in the frontline nd attack the harder +2 or+3s b4 u take a stab at me. Mind u I didn't mention any names, just pointing out the fact when we have easier target/farming guilds people become selfish. Nd yes, I usually attack all +3s in the past when it's actuallly challenging... I dun see ppl jumping at them...? I wonder why.... As Crystos mentioned his in original post, this rule has always been in play so I am not sure what you mean by "since this rule has been implemented". And even if you had no idea about it, I feel it is just common sense when playing in a team. As far as I am concerned, I always try to hit green targets whether they are +3 or 0. Even if you are probably one of the best player in the guild now, you are certainly not the only one capable of defeating stronger opponents. Sure, when we face a guardian guild, the strongest opponent are usually less targeted, but I don't recall ever seeing them green at the end of the war. If so, it was only because nobody managed to beat them, not because they were not targeted. Plus the toughest fights are not systematically the +3. I certainly didn't have the intention to bring any name here in the first place. You are certainly not the only one at fault and I acknowledge that you also hit the strongest opponents when facing stronger guilds. But your post was a bit bitter while we are trying to construct something here. And I feel like like you should give the example before lecturing someone. I already gave my opinion about the 6-point rules and I think it should always be in play unless it contradicts the green-yellow-red one. In that case, it would be perfectly fine for me to hit only +3 targets at the end of a GW if they are still green. But that means being the last one or one of the last to play...
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Rules
Dec 18, 2015 22:03:40 GMT -8
Post by pc0622 on Dec 18, 2015 22:03:40 GMT -8
Crystos mentioned that rules are in play. I respect that, but without the rules being written anywhere else in forum other than in this thread only, I am pretty sure that these explicit rules may be news to many people. It certainly was news to me. But I respect it and I will follow. Before you calling me a lecturer, look at the 2nd post of this thread and tell me whos lecturing. Dude, you wrote an essay. Pointing fingers is easy... I can do it all day. And dude, this is just a game. Chill out. I rarely post anything or even converse in channels cuz I dont like yapping, I rather just fight the guild battles cuz actions speak louder than words. So if you wanna keep on yapping and complain, keep at it buddy. You are doing great there. But you want to lead by example...? you got long ways to go my friend. I dont see myself as the top fighter of the guild or what not. I started off little, following Crystos/Baggins from the very beginning and built up to where I am now. So I respect them and I will do what they explicitly say. Thats it from me. You wont hear from me for a while. I'll see you at the guild grounds. peace out. Sure bring it on Since this rule has been implemented I did hit a +0 just to see what's gonna happen ndd other ppl take on the easy +2 or +3s... put ur self in the frontline nd attack the harder +2 or+3s b4 u take a stab at me. Mind u I didn't mention any names, just pointing out the fact when we have easier target/farming guilds people become selfish. Nd yes, I usually attack all +3s in the past when it's actuallly challenging... I dun see ppl jumping at them...? I wonder why.... As Crystos mentioned his in original post, this rule has always been in play so I am not sure what you mean by "since this rule has been implemented". And even if you had no idea about it, I feel it is just common sense when playing in a team. As far as I am concerned, I always try to hit green targets whether they are +3 or 0. Even if you are probably one of the best player in the guild now, you are certainly not the only one capable of defeating stronger opponents. Sure, when we face a guardian guild, the strongest opponent are usually less targeted, but I don't recall ever seeing them green at the end of the war. If so, it was only because nobody managed to beat them, not because they were not targeted. Plus the toughest fights are not systematically the +3. I certainly didn't have the intention to bring any name here in the first place. You are certainly not the only one at fault and I acknowledge that you also hit the strongest opponents when facing stronger guilds. But your post was a bit bitter while we are trying to construct something here. And I feel like like you should give the example before lecturing someone. I already gave my opinion about the 6-point rules and I think it should always be in play unless it contradicts the green-yellow-red one. In that case, it would be perfectly fine for me to hit only +3 targets at the end of a GW if they are still green. But that means being the last one or one of the last to play...
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Rules
Dec 19, 2015 5:01:28 GMT -8
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Post by Dental Gamer on Dec 19, 2015 5:01:28 GMT -8
I agree. Dental Gamer
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Rules
Dec 19, 2015 12:45:10 GMT -8
Post by D3athwish87 on Dec 19, 2015 12:45:10 GMT -8
o/ I agree too
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Rules
Dec 19, 2015 19:06:06 GMT -8
Post by Crystos on Dec 19, 2015 19:06:06 GMT -8
I feel bad that I haven't actually written out the rules until now. Sorry to make you guys argue. Usually, when someone joins they ask what's expected and I say something like, "hit the highest hp towers you think you can beat. Save your last sword for your riskiest choice. Don't be greedy with the points. Be polite in chat." Stuff like that. But we have evolved into a pretty strong guild. And I guess one-to-one conversations like that aren't going to cut it anymore. Hence, this attempt to make things clear and explicit and uniform.
The pictures Hazel showed us prove that we all need a reminder about what we expect from each other. That reminder is probably the most important part of this thread. And, as new people come in, we will have something they can read so they know at least we are serious and won't tolerate selfish behavior.
In the final analysis, though, I am relying on the people I recruited to make intelligent decisions that benefit everyone equally, earning wins and sharing points.
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Rules
Jan 3, 2016 4:32:03 GMT -8
Post by Crystos on Jan 3, 2016 4:32:03 GMT -8
Most of you are following the rules -- and have basically been doing so since the beginning. But one or two members still aren't getting it. Really, all you have to do is remember your teammates also need points and that the overall victory comes first. At this point, I'm going to have to start benching people so they understand. Sorry.
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Rules
Jan 10, 2016 14:24:05 GMT -8
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Post by eleazar on Jan 10, 2016 14:24:05 GMT -8
Agreed.... peleazar
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